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Author Topic: lemon bioflavonoids  (Read 34777 times)

Offline steve-uk

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lemon bioflavonoids
« on: Jan 17 2008, 09:42 PM »
after reading about the john of ohio regimen on the the meniere's talk forum i decided to give lemon bioflavonoids a try, along with most of the other components of the regimen.

in the time i've been using them i've found they help tremendously.

i was wondering if anyone else had any experience of them.


Sara

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #1 on: Jan 17 2008, 10:02 PM »
Hi, I too take lemon bioflavanids, i think they make a big difference - it doesn't stop the vertigo but stops the generall dizziness - also i'm pretty sure it's stoped my anxiety. As a bonus i never get bad colds since taking it. where do you get yours - i did buy some from the uk - but ended up paying for postage from the us when they stopped suppling it.

I have also tried the rest of his regim, but haven't noticed much difference - but from day 3 of the lemon stuff i felt better than before.

I also eat lemon drizzle cake made with lemon rind!!

NEWOSA65

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #2 on: Jan 17 2008, 11:16 PM »
Hey Steve,

I've heard of Lipoflavonoids, which is supposed to be a good substitute for Betahistine?  I've read that a fair few people who suffer with MD in USA take this supplement in place of Betahistine (.. which isn't available there).  I don't know much about bioflavonoids though but they sound very alike!

Cheers,

Simon





Sara

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #3 on: Jan 18 2008, 08:38 AM »
i think john of ohio who came up with this regim says there is a difference between Lipoflavonoids and Lemon bioflavonoids - apparently for the benefit it has to be Lemon bioflavonoids, i.e. not any old fruit bioflavonoids!!! - i don't know why - but it has made me feel better - i used to feel bad all the time, now it's only half the time!!!!!

Only draw back is it is had to get here in UK - but you can get the same effect from eating lemon peel - just more hassle - try it for a week - buy some lemons and grate the peel on your food (non waxed lemons) - the effect of course might be psychological, but who cares if you feel a bit better.

Offline nickiking

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18 2008, 09:45 AM »
hi sara, where abouts do you get these lemon bioflavonoids from. i figure anything is work a try as long as it does no harm. especially if they help with daily dizziness, thats a big issue for me at moment.
Nicki

Sara

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #5 on: Jan 18 2008, 10:07 AM »
Hi, the regime details can be found here:

http://www.menieresfoundation.org/johnsregimen.htm


I bought some from a uk site:

http://www.all-ages-vitamins.co.uk/largeresult.asp?id=2352


Then I tried the american ones: (unfortunately the postage costs are high)

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=NT-1043

I hope this helps.

Offline jon

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #6 on: Jan 18 2008, 10:54 AM »
Hi there,

There's quite a good Wiki page on Flavonoids which compares flavonoids from different plants. Some of the information would seem to be contradictory as to it's use for Meniere's, but it's likely that the effects are actually unknown. Ultimately, if they work for you, does it really matter.
Towards the end is a discussion on Citrus flavonoids. It might also be possible that some people will find other forms of flavonoids more beneficial, and other plant sources are mentioned....   at this wiki page

Wiki page on Flavonoids


jon
Tinnitus and deafness left ear 1981 onwards.
Diagnosed with meniere's in 1993.
Retired from work 1995.
HNPP - Hereditary Neuropathy with Pressure Palsy

Offline Christina

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #7 on: Jan 18 2008, 12:33 PM »
Hi Sara

Why did you switch from the UK supplier to the American one out of interest?  Did you find the Uk ones didn't work very well?

Chris
not waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain ...

Sara

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #8 on: Jan 18 2008, 12:46 PM »
Hi Chris, I switched to the U.S. ones because i was having a bad day and couldn't find any uk ones on the internet - then got it into my head that they had to be the exact ones as recommended from the vitamin shoppe - when i saw the U.S ones were stronger I thought to myself they would be twice as good!! - anyway I think the UK ones were just as good and will go back to them when these run out.

Offline steve-uk

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #9 on: Jan 18 2008, 01:45 PM »
lipoflavonoids:

here's what the regimens originator, john of ohio, says about lipoflavonoids:

quote:
"Lemon bioflavonoid contains the prime bioflavonoid known as eriocitrin. The proprietary product "Lipo-Flavonoid" also contains a form of this bioflavonoid, but apparently in lower concentrations. It also contains a number of vitamins and other components. It has shown clinical validity in improving MM symptoms. It is advertised in otolaryngological journals, and most ENTs have apparently been given samples to pass out to their MM patients. It is safe and shows some efficacy.

But as many here (myself included) have experienced, the much cheaper lemon bioflavonoid tablets work more effectively in most cases. Both products can take several weeks or months to bring relief. Nothing fixes Meniere's with any speed."

Offline steve-uk

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #10 on: Jan 18 2008, 02:10 PM »
different brands of lemon bioflavonoid:

i've tried both the nature's life (US only) and the nature's plus (available in UK) 1000mg lemon bioflavonoid tablets twice daily and in my experience i've found the nature's life product to be more effective but i can't say
conclusively.


nature's life (NL) states 50% active ingredient and nature's plus (NP) 24% active flavonones.

i've used these people based in chorley, lancs:
https://www.yourhealthfoodstore.co.uk/details.php/p3755_natures_plus_bioflavonoids_1000.html


and the US based vitamin shoppe:
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=OY-7045

although i think my next order will be with vitaminlife.com:
http://vitaminlife.com/control/product/~product_id=12643

international shipping is pricey and then there's an import duty applicable which isn't cheap but for me at least they are worth the money.



Offline jon

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #11 on: Jan 18 2008, 02:36 PM »
Hi again,

Sara mentioned using and grating your own lemons. I was looking further, and the flavonoid in question is eriocitrin. I then found a patent application for a method of extracting higher concentrations of this compound. Here's a quote

Quote
It has been found that in the step of removing an unnecessary peel along with feeding water after squeezing a juice of lemon or lime, the feeding water has a high concentration of eriocitrin. On the basis of this finding, researches have been assiduously conducted investigations to solve the problems, and a process for obtaining a food material having a high concentration of eriocitrin has been worked out upon focusing on the facts that eriocitrin is present in a peel in a large amount and that eriocitrin has quite a high water solubility.

When the production is conducted using feeding water of the peel as stated above, a material having a high concentration of eriocitrin can be obtained by concentrating this feeding water, namely, the water extract of the peel. However, since the resulting product has quite bitter and rough tastes, it cannot be used in a wide variety of beverages and foods as a food material.

So it would seem that a simple lemon peel water extract may actually contain the highest ammount of eriocitrin, and no complicated extraction process is needed. The only problem is this would taste bitter.
I've no idea how much eriocitrin is contained in the peel of a single lemon. It would be interesting to find out.
I would probably use this method myself, I prefer the truly organic method, but that's just one of my quirks. Anyhow I am supposed to eat lemon everyday to minimise the risk of developing another salivary stone, so I think i might be experimenting with the cold water extract. I'm pleased it's lemons and not oranges....

Jon
Tinnitus and deafness left ear 1981 onwards.
Diagnosed with meniere's in 1993.
Retired from work 1995.
HNPP - Hereditary Neuropathy with Pressure Palsy

Offline jon

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #12 on: Jan 19 2008, 02:05 PM »
First can I apologise in advance for what is to follow, I have a long history of geekiness and nerdyism, stuff like this floats my boat...  ahem....  ;D

This is an interesting article, but rather difficult to assimilate, I have to admit my brain left the room on several occasions!

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jnsv/52/1/52_54/_article

Here's a bit which might be useful in approximating the ammount of eriocitrin per Lemon.


Quote
   Preparation of intake sample. FG for the intake
sample was prepared from lemon peel (11). Extraction
from lemon peel (3 kg) was conducted using water
(6 L), and the solution was applied to reversed-phase
resin (Amberlite XAD-2, Rohm and Haas Co., Philadel-
phia). The resin was eluted with 40% ethanol and the
eluate was evaporated under reduced pressure and
freeze-dried to obtain a powder (248 g). FG contained
30% eriocitrin and other flavonoids (0.1% 6,8-C-
diglucosyldiosmetin, 0.05% hesperidin), which were
determined by HPLC analysis (11).


The process after water extraction is used to remove the bitters, and to produce a powdered product.


30% of 248g ~ 82grams eriocitrin per 6 kg of peel   (that's a lot of peel! at least 100 lemons, but also quite a lot of eriocitrin))


Approximate yield of eriocitrin from water extraction ~ 1.3 % (I'll drop the 0.3 to make life easy) a 1% yield is used below.

Nature's Life products seem a bit misleading. Their 1000mg tabs
actually contain 50% ie 500mg of mixed flavonoids, Eriocitrin, Hesperidine and ?rutin (not sure which ones)
But there's no confirmation of their relative proportions... Hmmm, that's sneaky.
http://www.affordable-natural-supplements.com/6602.html


Other products range in eriocitrin content but 100mgs seems the most common high dose

using 100mg as a standard dose, then 6kg of peel (82g of extract) should be equivalent to ~ 800 doses. (The article above uses 1g doses, but this might be for practical purposes of measurement of metabolites, rather than therapeutic dose.)

Enough for a few years I would have thought.

For approx 1g of eriocitrin (10 doses) at least 100g of lemon peel will be needed.

That's still quite a lot.

Haha... new data.. (have been weighing lemon peel)

The peel of one medium sized lemon weighs ~ 40g (This was quite surprising!)

So 1 lemon will provide approximatly 400mgs of eriocitrin ... bearing in mind that a home made extraction in water of lemon peel would be unlikely to give that yield, it's possible that 1 lemon a day would be sufficient.

As Vitamin C is supposed to help with absorption, it might be possible to make a simple liquidised juice drink of one whole lemon using 500ml-1litre of water, strained, then drunk in divided doses. Maybe over several days.

It might be worth trying... certainly cheaper, and possibly better...?


As another side note: In the metabolite article eriodictyol is also prepared and would seem to be more readily absorbed than eriocitrin, but it is more difficult to extract.
Interestingly, it was first found from this plant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eriodictyon_californicum

And curiosly it has had medicinal uses for asthma. I'm sure I also read that lemon bioflavonoids were also Leukotriene antagonists, which would account for their use for asthma.
http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content/full/115/2/313

Even more reason for me to try this, as I have difficult to control asthma.


Hope I haven't bored you all. And do check my calculations if you fancy trying it...

Jon
Tinnitus and deafness left ear 1981 onwards.
Diagnosed with meniere's in 1993.
Retired from work 1995.
HNPP - Hereditary Neuropathy with Pressure Palsy

Offline Christina

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #13 on: Jan 19 2008, 02:16 PM »
Jon - you're a marvel. Might indeed be worth trying the 1 lemon a day trial.  I admire your ability to work all this out.

Chris
not waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain ...

NEWOSA65

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #14 on: Jan 19 2008, 05:40 PM »
Hi Jon,

Thanks for the info, I think I'll give it a try!  I also found out that ginkgo is high in Bioflavonoids - was you aware of this too?

About Ginkgo:

Ginkgo Biloba. Part of the alternative medicine pharmacopia, this plant derivative is advocated as a treatment for vertigo and tinnitus. COMMENT: Possibly mildly effective. There is also a literature about Ginkgo for memory loss but a recent randomized clinical trial suggested that it is not effective (Solomon et al, 2002). Ginkgo was reviewed recently (Kanigel, 1999) where evidence is discussed regarding use of Ginkgo for Alzheimer's disease, sexual dysfunction, depression, headache, claudication, vertigo and tinnitus. Some patients with tinnitus claim that it helps. Nevertheless, as of 2001, controlled studies suggested that Ginkgo does not work for tinnitus (Drew et al, 2001). Ginkgo may reduce the viscosity of the blood (literally blood thinning), and it may also be an anti-oxident.
# Ginkgo probably should not be taken with other blood thinners such as aspirin, warfarin, or similar agents such as Plavix, or if it is, caution should be taken (bleeding times should be checked), according the the article above. Ginkgo should be stopped at least 36 hours prior to surgery. Ginkgo increases the INR when combined with warfarin. Ginkgo may also be associated with toxicity when combined with trazodone (a sleep medication). Ginkgo may reduce the effects of seizure medications. Should not be taken by persons hypersensitive to poison ivy, cashews or mangoes. Side effects also include mild GI upset.
# The amount of active ingredient in herbal preparations available in the United States vary widely. It is best to look for labels that say EGb 761, which is the extract from the leaves. In Germany, Ginkgo is regulated so products from there may be more standardized. Most studies of Ginkgo use 120 to 240 mg/day. Some authors suggest that 240 mg twice a day is appropriate (Seidman, 2002). The bottle should say "24% Ginkgo flavenoids" or "24% Ginkgo glycosides" or "50:1 standardized extract".

Simon

Offline jon

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #15 on: Jan 20 2008, 12:11 PM »
Chris, well I hope I worked it out correctly, but surely there can't be any dangers in consumming a whole lemon, but having said that some of the bitters which are removed in commercial products will remain in a simple extraction. It may actually cause it to be totally unpalatable, and possibly cause stomach upsets... I might try it this week just to check it doesn't have any untoward effects.

Simon,
I did try Ginkgo several years ago, there's a lot to recommend it, and I believe there have been clinical trials showing it's effectiveness. Unfortunately it gives me a terrific headache, or at least the particular brand I tried did. It put me off from trying it again.

Jon
Tinnitus and deafness left ear 1981 onwards.
Diagnosed with meniere's in 1993.
Retired from work 1995.
HNPP - Hereditary Neuropathy with Pressure Palsy

constanlydizzy

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #16 on: Jan 22 2008, 09:47 AM »
HI All
I have found all of this very interesting and I intend to give it a try. it reminded me of something I read in a newspaper several years ago. a man was suffering with md and for some reason started to drink regular drinks made from hot water, lemon juice and honey . He stated that this had a dramatic effect on his symptoms and he was feeling much better . As I have said it was several years ago so I can only remember it vaguely but I did give it a try myself but I can't bear the smell or taste of honey so my trial was very shortlived.

Regards Julie.

barbara

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #17 on: Jan 22 2008, 09:59 AM »
Hi Julie,
Why not just sweeten with sugar. This is a well known recipe for cold treatment. I think the lemon loosens the mucus in nose throat and chest and could therefore aid ears as well. In  past years people made this as lemonade and served it chilled in the summer.

I love it.
Barbara

constanlydizzy

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #18 on: Jan 22 2008, 10:07 AM »
Thanks Barbara
If I can't get the tablets will give it a go.

Julie

constanlydizzy

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #19 on: Jan 30 2008, 08:47 AM »
Just wondered if the lemon bioflavonoids are still working for the ones who said they felt better and also if anyone else has tried them.
I haven't managed to get any yet but have been told Holland and Barratt sell citrus bioflavonoids but not sure if they will be the correct ones to try.

Julie

Offline Christina

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #20 on: Jan 30 2008, 11:30 AM »
I think from what I've read & others have said on the forum citrus bioflavonoids are different to lemon ones.
Try getting them from www.all-ages-vitamins.co.uk.

I have bought some but they are like horse pills and I can't swallow them I'm afraid.   A liquid variety is available
from www.yourhealthfoodstore.co.uk, so I might give that one a try.  It's mixed with Vitamin C though, so not sure how that
will work.

Chris
not waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain ...

constanlydizzy

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #21 on: Feb 02 2008, 03:51 PM »
Thanks Chris I have just ordered some and will let you know if they make any difference. Not holding my breath though!!!!
Julie

constanlydizzy

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #22 on: Feb 12 2008, 09:57 AM »
Hi All

Have been taking the lemon bioflavonoids for a week now but sadly they do not appear to have made any difference. I know it's early days yet but I'm not very hopeful. I have tried so many things over the years and nothing has proved beneficial, at least now I don't expect a cure so I don't get disappointed anymore. I've still got a lot of the bio's left so will continue to take them and see if over time there is an improvement.

Julie

Offline Christina

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #23 on: Feb 12 2008, 10:20 AM »
I'll be interested to see how you go on Julie - I haven't tried taking them yet.

Chris
not waiting for the storm to pass, but learning to dance in the rain ...

Offline nickiking

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #24 on: Feb 27 2008, 10:43 AM »
Hi,

Julie, did you continue taking them? have you noticed any difference? I've got some on order, just waiting for the delivery now. Have started taking Ginkgo, slow release vitamin c and vitaming B complex too, just to see what happens. Please let me know how you're getting on.
Nicki

barbara

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #25 on: Feb 27 2008, 11:09 AM »
Hi Nicki,
Maybe not a good idea to try more than one thing at a time or you will not know which has helped and which has not. A few weeks on one and then change or add in is a better way to go.
Barbara

Offline jon

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #26 on: Feb 27 2008, 11:25 AM »
I have eventually tried making a whole lemon drink, just squeezed out the juice, finely chopped the peel, mixed it all back together and added water to make 500mls. Added a bit of sugar and whisked it up a few times and left in fridge for several hours.
It's really nice, the bitters in the peel seem to counteract the acidity of the juice. It makes a really nice drink!

I'll try keeping it going for a few weeks. To be honest I'm more interested whether or not it will have any effect on my asthma. That is something I can test frequently with a peak flow meter. So far it's had no effect, my peak flow was down to 180 this morning, which is just about as bad as it gets before I become unconscious. Early days yet, I'm hopeful but also realistic. If it works it will be almost miraculous.


jon
Tinnitus and deafness left ear 1981 onwards.
Diagnosed with meniere's in 1993.
Retired from work 1995.
HNPP - Hereditary Neuropathy with Pressure Palsy

Offline nickiking

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #27 on: Feb 27 2008, 12:38 PM »
Hi Barbara,

I know it was a bit hasty, but was feeling down and had to try something to get control. I did start the vitamin c a few weeks ago and mainly take it to keep away colds. I think you're right, so I'm going to take your advice and stop taking the vit b and see how i go for a few weeks. by then the bioflavonoids should be here and I'll introduce them.
Thanks for the advice, someimes I leap with both feet without looking  ;D

Glad you're enjoying your drink jon, sounds very refreshing. Interested in how it affects your asthma, as I too suffer from this, although it's very well controlled.
Nicki

constanlydizzy

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #28 on: Feb 27 2008, 02:43 PM »
Hi Nicki

Still taking the tabs but sorry to say they have made no difference whatsoever. Hope they work for you. I feel that I have got to try all of the simple things just in case it works but has i've said before I no longer expect miracles so don't get too disappointed anymore. In the early days I used to build my hopes up so much only to be terribly upset when things failed.

Best wishes
Julie

NEWOSA65

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #29 on: Feb 27 2008, 03:15 PM »
Hi Nicki,

Good luck with the bioflavonoids, i think they're definitely worth a try.  You sound a little bit like me - i have this awful habit of introducing several things at once and so i can never tell whats worked and what hasn't!

Best wishes and great news about your appointment :)

Good luck,

Simon x



Offline jon

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Re: lemon bioflavonoids
« Reply #30 on: Mar 08 2008, 12:07 AM »
I've abandoned the whole lemon drinks for the time being. I was getting some fairly unpleasant gastric effects. Not sure that had anything to do with the drink. My son seemed to enjoy it and had no problems.

Nicki, my asthma is quite bad presently, using combivent and flixotide, plus extra doses of ventolin. Do you find the ventolin causes a worsening of vertigo? I've been losing my head a few times today. It might be the combination of drugs, or it might be just coincidence. I think I'm going to have to live with it, not using them is not really an option at the moment.

I could try the lemon bioflav tablets, a bit expensive for me, so I may as well ask my GP for some montelukast as an add on for the asthma. I might get lucky and find it helps with the vertigo as well.

Jon
Tinnitus and deafness left ear 1981 onwards.
Diagnosed with meniere's in 1993.
Retired from work 1995.
HNPP - Hereditary Neuropathy with Pressure Palsy